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Re: Maximum Pre Gain Interpreting (was SD702 vs Tascam DR680 Blind T

Subject: Re: Maximum Pre Gain Interpreting (was SD702 vs Tascam DR680 Blind T
From: "Paul Jacobson" thebrunswicktwitcher
Date: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:42 pm ((PDT))
On 31/08/2010, at 5:35 AM, Rob Danielson wrote:

> If this exercise is futile, free feel to say so.

Hi Rob,

It isn't  futile.

What the input clipping  tells you is the hottest signal the preamp will ac=
cept before clipping, and this occurs when the gain is turn to it's lowest =
point. So this isn't much use for our purposes.

The mixers are fairly straight forward - gain is measured as the difference=
 between input signal and output signal so it is possible to give an absolu=
te figure specified at max gain for instance.  The MicPre specs show a maxi=
mum gain of 66dB throw in an additional complication in that it shows that =
gain drops by 10dB when phantom power is engaged.  A quick check of archive=
.org indicates that the 10dB drop with phantom engaged only applies to MixP=
re's with a s/n 501x or 502x. The MixPre design was changed with s/n 503x a=
nd the 10dB drop does not apply to these models.

- Quadmic manual claims "Gain +10 dB up to +60 dB adjustable per channel" u=
nder the brief decription heading.
- Symterix SX202 specs claim a gain range of +20 to +60dB. (BTW a different=
 SX202 spec sheet shows +26dB to +66dB and has the note "specifications may=
 change without notice")
- Lunatec V2 manual states +10dB to +60dB in 5dB steps.


So based on this information you'd expect both A (QuadMic) and B (SX202) to=
 produce very close output levels. If you hooked up a pre s/n 503_ MixPre v=
ia balanced outputs at the same input levels  you'd expect the saturation t=
o be lower that A or B (+60db vs +56dB). However if the MIxPre was s/n 0503=
_ or greater you expect the opposite outcome due to the MixPre's higher out=
put with phantom engaged (+66dB).

(2) is dependant on the line-level settings of the recorder. In the case of=
 the SD 7-series recorders when you have the line level set at 0dB on the d=
isplay you are attenuating the Line input.

The confusion arises because the SD recorders display gain referenced to -2=
Message: 0dBFS.  
Subject: Sound Devices measures all it's recorder specs to -20dBFS so to be =
able to compare with the gain specs given for recorders you need to discoun=
t the SD gain figures by roughly 20dB.   SD include a spec that confirms th=
is is the case.  If you look at the Input Clipping Level for the line input=
 you'll see that this is given as  +26dBu with gain fully down.  As the cli=
pping point must be 0dBFS this indicates that the line input is attenuated =
by 26dB with gain fully down.  The gain range for the line input is given a=
s -6 to 18dB input to -20dBFS.  Subtracting 20dB to estimate the gain range=
 referenced to 0dBFS we get -26dB to -2dB input to 0dBFS.  So a +26dBu inpu=
t attenuated by 26dB will give us 0dBFS.

So if you have the 744 line in set to 0.0/"Unity" gain on the display you a=
ctually have +20dBu input to 0dBFS, or 20dB attenuation.

If this is the case your total gain is:

A & B:  60dB + -20dB =3D 40dB
D:  56dB + -20dB =3D 36dB (pre s/n 503_)  OR  66dB + -20dB =3D 46dB (s/n 50=
3_ or later)

SD 744 mic preamp gain:  47.4dB (spec gain figure)

If you had the Line-In set to maximum gain ( or in reality -2dB attenuation=
):

A & B: 60dB + -2dB =3D 58dB
D:  56dB + -2dB =3D 54dB

Your relative rankings would fit the specs if you had the line-in at 0dB (-=
20dB actual) setting.

cheers
Paul















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