David,
it all depends on how the technician works and how he wants the end result
to be.
Very little film sound, for example, has any similarities with "a typical
sound track" as we want it to be when produced on a bird sound CD, for example.
Instead, they let the available picture form a possible dramatic effect.
When picture editing is completed, often soundless, - atmosphere and
background is made in post production, as well as sound effects like
wing-flapping etc. Then the sound man wants only a pure mono sound from the
bird, which does not conflict with anything else he has done. All
film-maker Telinga users use mono.
Only the ones making their own films and videos work with stereo. Then they
also let the sound tracks have an impact on the final result. They might
have a really beautiful stereo recording of a song-thrush, which make them
take a nice picture scenery to fit that recording.
Film people in general look upon sound recording as a "necessary evil"
which always get in conflict with the camera work.
Klas.
At 10:58 2005-07-11, you wrote:
>Thanks Walter for your insight--as I suspected, studio engineeer and
>I are poles apart on this. I think I'll keep on getting the best
>stereo I can, mix the pieces to my taste, let him choose a channel
>of my stereo and do what he will, then compare the results. I'm sure
>to learn from this interchange.
>
>I'm off to the Big Island for a week of recording, mostly for this
>same project. Most interesting challenge will be to get ambience at
>a Hawaiian adze quarry at 13000 feet on Mauna Kea,where the wind has
>been up to 30-40 knots this past few days, but forecast to drop to
>10 knots. I hope to use the MKH20/SASS for this, but still haven't
>come up with adequate windscreen for high wind, so will likely fall
>back to spaced MKH20's with my home-made zeppelins, which work fine.
>Most interesting sounds high up on Mauna Kea, for this project, are
>the 'Ua'u or Hawaiian Petrel, which nest there.
>
>Aloha,
>David
>
>
>
>--- In Walter Knapp <>
>wrote:
> > From: "David Kuhn" <>
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Bernie and all,
> > > Thanks Bernie, I'll try the h-phones-attached-to-log method next
> > > time, as recent developments indicate I may need to do it
> > > differently:
> > > I hear from the studio engineer in Hilo that "All sources [of
>log-
> > > moving audio] should be done raw mono 48 khz; in the mix, we can
> > > determine pan scenerios, levels, effects, and so on..."
> > >
> > > I'm up against my lack of studio experience here, whereas this
> > > engineer has wide experience in studio mixing, but only for
>music.
> > > I'll likely give it over to him to make the most of it his way,
>but
> > > also do the mixing here in my studio and compare the results to
>his.
> > > I guess one question is: If I record in stereo as planned and
>save
> > > the file in mono to send to the engineer, is the result the same
>(to
> > > him) as recording in mono originally?
> > >
> > > Wouldn't a studio engineer have more flexibility if he starts
>with
> > > stereo? Isn't the use of extensive panning to create "fake"
>stereo?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any guidance that would put me on a better footing in
> > > these "negotiations"--most important to me is to create the
>best,
> > > most credible illusion for the exhibit, and to represent my work
>in
> > > the best light. Manipulating mono to sound like stereo aint it.
> >
> > Virtually all music is now recorded as multichannel mono, then
>mixed to
> > fake stereo. The label may say stereo, but it's not. Your studio
> > engineer is obviously steeped in this method. He may not be able
>to
> > handle natural stereo well.
> >
> > To be fair, mixing a bunch of stereo fields together to form one
> > accurate field would be quite a task. Stereo is best recorded with
>a
> > single stereo mic setup in one pass. If a sound must be recorded
> > separately, it should be just the sound and that panned through
>the
> > complete stereo field. Get your ambiance from one stereo mic
>setup, even
> > if you record in several passes from the same spot.
> >
> > The multi-mono stereo lacks a proper ambiance field, each mono mic
>will
> > pick up some resonance, some ambiance, but it does not mix to a
>single
> > field, just a jumble all pointing odd directions. At least not
>without a
> > huge amount of computing power, far more than is used. You'd have
>to
> > extract the ambiance from each mono mic separately and join that
>into a
> > single volume of ambiance. Then extract just the main players from
>each
> > mic and pan them into that field. That's why engineers try to not
>pick
> > up ambiance.
> >
> > Your engineer will simply pan the log sound where he wants it
>located.
> > Regardless of any ambiance the recording contains. In fact he'd
>probably
> > prefer no ambiance. I don't know how much is to be mixed in this
> > soundfield, so hard to comment more.
> >
> > For most folks this multi-mono mix is what they think stereo is.
>No
> > wonder even very crude mic arrangements are thought to be stereo
>setups.
> > People are simply not used to more than the main sounds having
> > believable directionality, if even that. It took me a while to
>learn to
> > listen to the ambiance in a stereo field as well as the main
>players. To
> > evaluate the structure of the field as a whole. The echoes of the
>main
> > callers should be believable, for instance. And the main echo
>sources
> > for all callers should be the same. Like, for instance, there's a
>rock
> > that's a echo source, it's direction should be as firm as the
>direct
> > calls, pointed out consistently by all the echoes. Only happens
>with
> > real stereo.
> >
> > The SASS, for instance, I might be recording frogs calling in and
>around
> > a pond in the woods. The reflections of the calls from the tree
>trunks
> > will form a audio image of the forest, which is a result of the
>echoes.
> > On good days even each tree will image. Just as I would hear it at
>the
> > site with my eyes closed. It does not require a SASS for this,
>other
> > well designed stereo setups can do this to a varying degree.
> >
> > Or listen to the Death Valley recording I put up. Hear the image
>of the
> > back pit wall in the echoes? Encoding to mp3 blurred it a bit, but
>it's
> > still there. It's faint and takes some listening to hear
>separately, but
> > it's part of what makes the recording stereo. Or just how most of
>the
> > flying birds are headed toward the water? That's in faint wing
>noises
> > mostly.
> >
> > Multi-mono is like a picture album on one subject, the pictures
>only
> > somewhat related. Stereo is like a single picture.
> >
> > Walt
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Microphones are not ears,
>Loudspeakers are not birds,
>A listening room is not nature."
>Klas Strandberg
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Telinga Microphones, Botarbo,
S-748 96 Tobo, Sweden.
Phone & fax int + 295 310 01
email:
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