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Re: New File Uplaoded

Subject: Re: New File Uplaoded
From: "John Hartog" <>
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:40:20 -0000
--- In  "Rich Peet" <>
wrote:
> I will continue to run a no barrier parabolic with omni pair.
> Reasons are simple.  A Parabolic is a bad ambient mic so why would you
> want the stereo background when you can use the pair as a noise cancel
> pair and get considerable more reach and lower background noise than a
> separated pair with barrier.

I like your ideas Rich, I expect someday I will experiment with noise
canceling omni pairs - I just have not got there yet.  

To the question as to why I would want the stereo background, well I
like stereo, and I have a Telinga dish, and a pair of 183s, so I
thought I would give it a try.  Of course I realize there are
tradeoffs: with the barrier I lose some reach or gain in exchange for
nicer ambience and stereo placement of subjects.  

  Also, as soon as you use a barrier in a
> parabolic the mic is no longer seeing the whole dish, just half. 
> Using the telinga dish as the starting point you are really already
> over the edge on how big a parabolic should be for bird song.

It has been mentioned before, by you and others, there is a problem
with not seeing the whole dish. I guess I don't fully understand what
is meant by that.  Do you mean I am only utilizing half the available
noise free gain or am I compromising the quality of the sound in other
ways?
-John Hartog
 
> Rich
> 
> --- In  "John Hartog"
> <> wrote:
> > > > So in summary a parabolic, split mic, no barrier arrangement 
> > can 
> > > >out reach a parabolic using a stereo barrier with near spaced 
> > mics.
> > >         Reach is one of my goals but I also want a more natural 
> > > recording. 
> > 
> > I too have been experimenting with stereo 183s in a dish.
> > First I mounted them spaced about 1" without a barrier, and It 
> > actually seemed to produce ok stereo for the subjects (frogs).  I 
> > posted a clip, and Walt suggested the effect might be more 
> > panned mono than stereo, and I think Dan Dugan suggested the 
> > background sounds were essentially mono.  I listened to it again 
> > and noticed the stereo field for the subjects seemed wider than 
> > for the background - kind of inside out.  
> > Another thing that makes me suspicious about that method is:  I 
> > was playing with a Telinga dish by reflecting light onto a piece of 
> > paper ( a not very scientific experiment,) and I noticed that the 
> > focus (at least for the light from that lamp) was not very 
> > symmetrical - rather twisted and distorted.
> > 
> > I switched to a very simple barrier of mounting the 183s on a 
> > tube - again spaced about one inch.  This method seems to 
> > work ok, the subjects sound nice and the background sounds 
> > wider.  The only thing is the background sounds get flip-flopped.  
> > I think this is because a sound from one side, let's say the right, 
> > reflects off the opposite side of the dish and into microphone on 
> > the left.  
> > Here's a of example using this method (Northern Shovelers - I've 
> > posted this once before - 940k):
> > 
> > http://www.rockscallop.org/JH_Shovelers.mp3
> > 
> > I wanted a system that kept the entire stereo image intact without 
> > a flip-flop so I decided to use a barrier large enough to block the 
> > sounds from one side from reflecting off the opposite side.  I 
> > decide on using an old LP, because it is thin, fairly dense, and 
> > rigid and about the size I was thinking of.  It seems to work well,
> > preserving a wide background image while highlighting the 
> > subject, as in this recording (Western Meadowlark - I've posted 
> > this once before - 940k):
> > 
> > http://www.rockscallop.org/JH_050226_WMeadowlark.mp3
> > 
> > This method is also useful for isolating multiple subjects as in 
> > this recording of two frogs (Pacific Chorus Frogs - New - 163k) 
> > 
> > http://www.rockscallop.org/jh-183pblp-050430-pcfrogs.mp3
> > 
> > All that being said, I mostly use my 183s without a dish using a 
> > tree as a barrier.  I got the "tree binaural" idea from someone at a 
> > Nature Sounds Society workshop.
> > -John Hartog




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