Thanks Raimund!
Jeff
Raimund Specht wrote:
> --- In "Jeffrey D. Daub"
> <> wrote:
>
> Jeff,
>
> A relaiable and objective source of information seems to be the
> Audio Engineering Society. This organisation has published a CD-ROM
> devoted on coding artifacts:
>
> http://www.aes.org/publications/AudioCoding.cfm
>
> However, it seems, that they have tried to avoid to compare any
> specific systems or brands in order to prevent any legal or
> commercial problems (I still have not exploreded that publication, I
> only found some references).
>
> Regards,
> Raimund
>
>
> > Gentlemen,
> >
> > Sorry I lack in your tact at times...
> >
> > I too, am only interested in seeing the actual specs on the
> subject or
> > some interpretation of the specs, and some tests comparing the
> signal
> > the goes "IN" VS the signal that goes "OUT" so that if anyone on
> the
> > list needs them for reference, someone can point them to
> a "primary
> > source" on the subject such as on the Nature Recordists Yahoo site.
> >
> > I did not mean to sound as if I was complaining about your
> discussion in
> > particular. Quite on the contrary. However on this list, we DO
> tend to
> > "tread lightly" on "that" subject at times. I am only complaining
> about
> > "treading lightly"...
> >
> > Your discussion was actually quite logical and sorry if I butted
> in.
> >
> > In reference to old posts:
> > Survey says... Some people like/ love it (minidisc and other
> platforms
> > that use ATRAC) and are happy with the results.
> >
> > Survey says... Some won't use it because of the "loss" in data and
> content.
> >
> > I admit, I have steered away from it because I have noticed
> it "sounds
> > different" although I don't know exactly why. I have heard lots of
> > opinions on the subject from users and nonusers. Yet, I seem to
> keep
> > missing the facts...
> >
> > My point is: I just don't think logic or analysis or hard
> references
> > should be put aside just because it is an "emotional subject" for
> some.
> >
> > In my opinion, the "emotional" side of the argument from either
> side is
> > pure opinion, as were (I'm guessing) 100 posts on the subject were
> > during the last year. Maybe in my haste to delete dozens of posts
> on the
> > subject after reading dozens of opinions I missed some great
> facts...
> >
> > Highest regards,
> >
> > Jeff Daub
> >
> >
> > Raimund Specht wrote:
> > > --- In "oryoki2000"
> <>
> > > wrote:
> > > > To my mind, "minidisc: in or out"
> > > > isn't the issue.
> > > >
> > > > Instead I think that recordists
> > > > need to know enough about the
> > > > mechanics of ATRAC, and the results
> > > > that can be achieved using ATRAC,
> > > > to make a judgment about when to
> > > > use it -- like the way a golfer
> > > > knows what a particular club can do.
> > > >
> > > > There is, to my knowledge,
> > > > no generally accepted study
> > > > that "proves" ATRAC is either
> > > > suitable or unsuitable for
> > > > anything -- just opinions and
> > > > experiences that help guide us.
> > > >
> > > > --oryoki
> > >
> > > I agree, the differences between the various audio compression
> are
> > > not very important. So it was not my initial aim to compare ATRAC
> > > and MP3. I only wanted to show the general differences between
> > > uncompressed PCM audio and lossy algorithms. Unfortunately, I
> > > started with MP3 and evaluated the ATRAC example later (in
> response
> > > to a serious argument posted by Evert).
> > >
> > > I only compared one aspect between the systems (the quality of
> > > spectrographic displays for scientific sound analysis work).
> There
> > > might be other aspects, which are less important for my purposes
> > > (e.g. signal to noise ratio and listening quality), which I did
> not
> > > considered at all. My measurements should only demonstrate, that
> > > lossy data compression in general CAN be very problematic for any
> > > scientific evaluation of sounds. For those applications, it is
> not
> > > the question, which of the lossy system to use. All of these
> systems
> > > would be inappropriate. I admit, that this group perhaps was the
> > > wrong place to discuss these things.
> > >
> > > Jeff Daub wrote :
> > >
> > > >Enough beating around the bush!
> > >
> > > >How about this question folks:
> > >
> > > >"What exactly is lost with the standards in ATRAC and Minidisc
> > > >formats?"
> > >
> > > >possible variables: different manufacturers standards for MD;
> > > >different
> > > >standards for ATRAC; others?
> > >
> > > >please omit any comments in defense or against ATRAC or
> minidisk
> > >
> > > >let's try a scientific inquiry without opinions, OK?
> > >
> > > I do not intend to run a complete comparison of all available
> > > compression systems on the market. It would be extremely
> difficult
> > > to keep such a comparison objective (there are too much
> parameters
> > > involved). As mentioned earlier, the results will heavily depend
> on
> > > the test signals used. After reading some other 'tests' and
> debates
> > > on the internet I realized, that it is seems to be impossible to
> run
> > > a serious discussion without emotions...
> > >
> > > Raimund
> > >
> > >
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> > >
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