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Re: Recording and diversity

Subject: Re: Recording and diversity
From: "Rich Peet <>" <>
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 05:11:29 -0000
I will check out the site, thanks.  A wonderful critter.  I did spend 
some time when doing the circle tour around lake Superior trying to 
find a specific group of Woodland Caribou.  Few enough of the 
critters that I could not find them in the time I had.

Rich Peet

--- In  "Barb Beck" <> 
wrote:
> Do a google on caribou university of Alberta and you will get a ton 
of
> research papers which have been produced in our department and the 
bio sci
> department on this critter over the last few years.  The wolves are 
a
> problem BUT when they are in artificially high numbers for the 
habitat due
> to the logging which creates food for moose and deer in high enough 
numbers
> to keep the wolves happy.  This should be in no way interpreted as 
a kill
> the wolf thing - it is just that there are areas where the wolves 
naturally
> are scarce when there is no habitat for deer and moose around.  The 
caribou
> inhabit these areas sparsely and are apparently protected by their 
low
> numbers.
> 
> I am talking about the woodland caribou which exists in very low 
numbers in
> our boreal forest and from all available evidence have existed in 
low
> numbers before any development started in the area - not the tundra 
critter.
> 
> Barb
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich Peet <> 
> Sent: December 16, 2002 9:28 PM
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [Nature Recordists] Recording and diversity
> 
> 
> All well said Barb.  It was the loggers in the National Forest
> Service that invented "Smokey" to begin with. I saw very few old
> cedars left anywhere in the Sierra. Long ago gone.  Fragmentation 
has
> been a norm now for 100 years of "checkerboarding".  Everything you
> say is true except I would challenge the absence of "flys"
> not "wolves" for the Woodland Caribou success.  Good recording to us
> all and help educate the local forresters that know nothing about
> systems and now have all the authority thanks to the Bushwacker.
> 
> Rich Peet
> 
> --- In  "Barb Beck" 
<>
> wrote:
> > Hey when I am recording I would like a little LESS species
> diversity - at
> > least within recording distance of the mic 8-)
> >
> > Seriously, the most species diversity in a particular area is not
> > necessarily a good thing.  There are some things that need habitat
> possibly
> > in large areas where they do not come in contact with species of
> the more
> > fragmented habitats - I am thinking of some of our woodland 
caribou
> up here
> > and Spotted Owls in the NW.  Last I heard it looks like the
> fragmentation
> > caused by logging there has admittedly brought in a lot of new
> species, also
> > make a lot of good bunny habitat which brings in more Great Horned
> Owls.
> > These guys do not mind an occasional spotty for dinner.  Also the
> Barred
> > Owls who have evolved in areas where there are Great Horns seem to
> fare
> > better than their shy somewhat smaller cousin meaning they are now
> coming in
> > and occupying areas which were formerly Spotty habitat and
> interbreeding
> > with them.  The woodland caribou apparently survive by being in
> such low
> > numbers in their habitat that they cannot support a wolf pack.
> Fragment the
> > habitat making more deer and moose habitat, get in a lot of deer
> and moose
> > to feed the wolves and you get them rapidly picking off the 
caribou
> which
> > are easy prey.  Winners and losers and we do not know enough about
> the grand
> > design of nature to always predict the outcome and sometimes make
> some
> > horrible guesses.
> >
> > No matter what you do there are winners and losers.  Locking areas
> up,
> > protecting them from fire etc also creates winners and losers and
> not always
> > the ones intended.  Look at the ecological disaster called
> Yellowstone.
> > Locking up the place and throwing away the key has resulted in elk
> which
> > have obliterated habitat for bears (shrubs browsed to death) 
beaver
> and
> > associated critters on beaver ponds (elk essentially removing the
> aspen from
> > the park as well as willows and all things slightly palatable -
> starving elk
> > even skirting the spruce) - I better get off that soapbox or this
> message
> > will take a meg.
> >
> > In California in the Sierra the foresters and environmentalists
> were at
> > loggerheads for a long time each keeping the other from doing
> anything.  I
> > know several years ago I was in the Tahoe basin and horrified at
> the trees
> > there - dead and dying.  Trees that should have been thinned out
> decades
> > before by natural fires or logging.  Now sitting as a powder keg
> waiting to
> > go off with a resulting very very hot unnatural very damaging fire
> through
> > the basin which most experts at that time were predicting would
> create huge
> > amounts of ash which would run into the lake wiping out its
> beautiful color
> > for centuries. I hope somebody has come to their senses and 
started
> trying
> > to remedy as best they can the situation.  Even the very old giant
> Sequoia
> > survive BECAUSE of fire - their thick bark protecting them from 
the
> blazes
> > of natural fires which occurred frequently in the area.  Man has
> eliminated
> > a lot of the natural disturbance which took place in this area
> creating
> > conditions for a huge unnatural disturbance.  But then again in 
the
> natural
> > world there will be winners and losers.  Always are except when 
you
> are a
> > very very adaptable critter able to create your own living space
> and buy
> > strawberries at any time of the year almost anywhere. - better 
quit
> the off
> > topic rambling before the listowner gives me a deserved smack
> >
> > Barb Beck (5th generation Californian)
> > who escaped to
> > Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Walter Knapp 
> > Sent: December 16, 2002 12:29 PM
> > To: 
> > Subject: Re: [Nature Recordists] Re: Advice for a new budding
> recordist.
> >
> >
> > Dan Dugan wrote:
> > >>--oryoki
> > >>
> > >>ps.  Does the Nature Sound Society sierra recording
> > >>camp still use the University of San Francisco field
> > >>station near Yuba Pass?  I have fond memories of
> > >>my visit there, before the summit area was logged.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes! This year's is tentatively scheduled for June 20-22. There
> are
> > > still lots of good recording places at the summit and around the
> area.
> >
> > Actually, if not done too extreme, things like logging can 
increase
> edge
> > habitat. And edge habitat is where most of the species diversity
> is. It
> > might even be better.
> >
> > Though I'm clear across the country and don't know the site.
> >
> > Walt
> > 
> >
> >
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> > 
> >
> >
> >
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> 
> 
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