See me after the talk 2

To: 'COG List' <>
Subject: See me after the talk 2
From: Philip Veerman <>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 00:44:39 +0000

Focussing on the aspect of history, I would suggest that it is not correct to characterise this as that later taxonomic information overrides the old stuff. This is because of the principle that original names take precedence over new names, when it comes to problems. Indeed changes often happen when a name is given, that cannot be used, because it is already assigned to something else. Then a correction needs to be made. This whole process may take decades to unravel. The earlier name will be the one that stands for the creature that it was assigned to. It is correct that later scientific information also often changes the understanding of relationships and this is presumably the main reason for changes of names. Although I suspect Martin is commenting on recent opinion pieces, which are just that, and not constrained by the International Rules of Zoological Nomenclature.




From: Martin Butterfield [
Sent: Friday, 12 October, 2018 1:40 PM
To: Geoffrey Dabb
Cc: COG List
Subject: Re: FW: FW: [canberrabirds] See me after the talk 2


Tsk tsk tsk.  I unfortunately missed the talk at the last meeting which I am sure explained that later taxonomic information overrides the old stuff (in some taxa this can happen several times in the blinking of a grant application).  Thus Jobling from the dark mists of 1991 gets jobbed indeed, and is over-ridden by Fraser and Gray (F and G) from 2013. 


If one wished to pay greater respect to age - with which I like, you am, in a position to appreciate -  Mr Jobling is bracketed as F and G note that the original designation was by M. Vieilot in 1816 and meant soft, delicate.





On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 at 13:03, Geoffrey Dabb <> wrote:

Ha, well, yes, good to see some life out there.  Malurus if you prefer.  But we know whom Maurice Blackburn will not be calling as witnesses for the plaintiffs on this occasion: M Butterfield, Jeannie Gray and Louis Jean Pierre Vieillot.  The claimants point to HANZAB (2001) following Jobling (1991): ‘malos’ meaning ‘soft, WEAK’.     


From: Martin Butterfield <>
Sent: Friday, 12 October 2018 10:40 AM
To: Geoffrey Dabb <>
Subject: Re: FW: [canberrabirds] See me after the talk 2


Unless the forces of evil have snuck something past me, nice try no cigar. Its Malurus which Fraser and Gray define as "delicate tail" 

( I had to do delete the image to reply within the size constraint). 


On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 at 10:13, Geoffrey Dabb <> wrote:

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