Re: FW: [canberrabirds] Avian drama in backyard

[Con Boekel <>]

And then there are stool pigeons...

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/stool-pigeon.html

On 8/14/2018 10:56 AM, Martin Butterfield wrote:

In Kiswahili (another trade-based language) the word "ndege" means both bird and aircraft.  However applying adjectives differentiated them: "Ndege kidogo" is a little ndege = bird whereas an aircraft was "Ndege kubwa" = big bird.  I suspect vultures and flamingos needed further clarification along the lines of ndege kidogo kubwa.

A similar concept was occasionally useful in the office when screams came from the receptionists desk.  Undoubtedly a "panya" problem, but was it panya kubwa (=rat) or panya kidogo (=mouse)?

Martin Butterfield

http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/

On 14 August 2018 at 10:37, Geoffrey Dabb <> wrote:

Thank you,  John.  In Tok Pisin (Melanesian Pidgin) ‘balus’ is sometimes given as meaning ‘bird’.  You are more likely to come across it as the word for aircraft. (’Ples balus’is an airfield.)  However, earlier, ‘balus’ meant ‘pigeon or dove’.  In Mihalic’s dictionary he gives no Pisin word for ‘bird’.  He indicates warious kinds of birds have Pisin names, eg ‘muruk’ for ‘cassowary’.

 

It gets more complicated. Most Pisin bird names came from the local language of the Rabaul area.  Mihalic gives this as the source of ‘kumul’, the general word for a bird of paradise.  However there are no kumuls in the Rabaul area, or in New Britain.  (Don’t ask about muruks).  ‘Kumul’ has gained wide currency, including as the name for the national PNG rugby league team. _

 

 

 

From: Dr David Rosalky <>
Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2018 9:35 AM
To: 'John Harris' <m("biblesociety.org.au","john.harris");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">au>; 'Geoffrey Dabb' <m("iinet.net.au","gdabb");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">>
Cc: 'chatline' <m("canberrabirds.org.au","canberrabirds");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">org.au>
Subject: RE: [canberrabirds] Avian drama in backyard

 

Wow!  I’m so glad I raised the question again.  You guys are full of fascinating information.

 

From: John Harris [m("biblesociety.org.au","john.harris");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:john.harris@biblesociety.org.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2018 9:24 AM
To: Geoffrey Dabb <>
Cc: chatline <m("canberrabirds.org.au","canberrabirds");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">org.au>
Subject: Re: [canberrabirds] Avian drama in backyard

 

Thank you Geoffrey for an interesting question.

In the Kriol Bible, the Hebrew YONAH is translated as PIJIN (‘pigeon’).

Hebrew YONAH is Columba Livia, the Asiatic Rock Dove, ancestor of the domestic pigeon. It had been domesticated long before Genesis was written and its homing abilities were well known.

Aboriginal languages do not distinguish pigeons and doves. Neither, originally, did English. At the time of the King James Bible, a pigeon was a young bird and a dove was an adult. We still can call a pigeon house a dove-cote.

For those who want to read on, here is the text of Genesis 8:10-11.

 

AFTA  NA WANWIKTAIM NOWA  LARRAMGO DET   PIJIN  BROM DET BOUT IGIN,

After now       one-week     Noah         let-go      that     dove from   that   boat    again

 EN WEN DET PIJIN  KAMBEK    SANGODANTAIM, IM ABUM GRINWAN    LIF LANGA  IM   MAUS 

And when that dove  came-back       at-sunset           he  had  green-one      leaf   in         his mouth.  

 

(SUNSET  = SUN-GO-DOWN TIME -SANGODANTAIM)  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Geoffrey Dabb <>
Date: Monday, 13 August 2018 at 6:56 pm
To: chatline <m("canberrabirds.org.au","canberrabirds");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">org.au>
Subject: RE: [canberrabirds] Avian drama in backyard

 

Leading to John H’s long suit there, David.  I wonder what the Kriol Bible says.    g

 

From: Dr David Rosalky <>
Sent: Monday, 13 August 2018 6:30 PM
To: 'Geoffrey Dabb' <>; m("canberrabirds.org.au","canberrabirds");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"> org.au
Subject: RE: [canberrabirds] Avian drama in backyard

 

The picture reminds me of a posting I made some years ago about doves and the Bible.

 

The Jewish Bible has two different words for what are translated as “dove” (as was Noah’s twig-finder) and “turtle-dove”.  Indeed, the English translation of Song of Songs drops “dove” and refers to a “turtle” which conjures interesting images.

 

The Hebrew word for “turtle-dove” is pronounced “tor”.  According to the various lexicons, it seems to have no apparent etymological root, but is described rather as being onomatopoeic (at least according to the Brown, Driver, Briggs lexicon).  So the bird presumably made a sound like “tor” or “tor-tor”.  Hence, through a Middle East version of Chinese whispers, the word “turtle” emerged.

 

The interesting question from an ornithological nomenclature perspective is why doves and turtle doves have different names in a book thousands of years old and still do in many references today.  Is it purely that they make a different sound from other doves?  Or are there other biological differences?

 

David R

 

From: Geoffrey Dabb
Sent: Monday, 13 August 2018 4:27 PM
To: m("canberrabirds.org.au","canberrabirds");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"> org.au
Subject: FW: [canberrabirds] Avian drama in backyard

 

 

 

From: Philip Veerman <m("pcug.org.au","pveerman");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">>
Sent: Monday, 13 August 2018 4:02 PM
To: 'John Layton' <m("bigpond.com","johnlayton2");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">>; 'Martin' <m("gmail.com","martinflab");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">>
Cc: 'Canberra birds' <m("canberrabirds.org.au","canberrabirds");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">org.au>
Subject: RE: [canberrabirds] Avian drama in backyard

 

For what it is worth, I have seen the book “Red-Tails In Love” at various bookshops over the years, and have a bit of an idea what it is about, but that is a big stretch to relate it to John’s story, even given the use of those 2 words...... I would put Martha, the last Passenger Pigeon, who died in Cincinatti zoo, as more famous, and the three pigeons, serving with the Royal Air Force, all of whom contributed to the recovery of air crew from ditched aircraft during the Second World War and who were in December 1943 the first recipients of the PDSA Dickin Medal award. And many others with similar stories.

 

See the list at:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickin_Medal

 

Philip

 

From: John Layton [m("bigpond.com","johnlayton2");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">com] Sent: Monday, 13 August, 2018 3:16 PM     To: 'Martin'       Cc: 'Canberra birds'
Subject: RE: [canberrabirds] Avian drama in backyard

 

The book about Pale Male and family is “Red-Tails In Love” by Marie Winn. I can’t see it in the ACT Library Service catalogue, probably not surprising as it was published nearly 20 years ago.

 

John Layton

From: Martin [m("gmail.com","martinflab");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">] Sent: Monday, 13 August 2018 2:32 PM        To: Philip Veerman                    Cc: John Layton; Canberra birds
Subject: Re: [canberrabirds] Avian drama in backyard

 

Pale Male (capitalised) is possibly the most famous bird in the world. It is one of a pair that nest on 5th Ave in NYC and became famous when the owners of the building tried to destroy the nest.  A number of famous people (Mary Tyler Moore being one) joined the (successful) fight to save the birds. I would be surprised if the book about is not available in the ACT Library service.

Sent from my iPhone

On 13 Aug 2018, at 13:22, Philip Veerman <> wrote:

Huh? .........  Red-tailed Hawk is a North American bird. Actually a species of Buzzard.......... how does that enter the story?

 

Glissading? Now that is a new one on me but seems correct.

 

From: Martin Butterfield [m("gmail.com","martinflab");" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">] Sent: Monday, 13 August, 2018 11:18 AM To: John Layton              Cc: Canberra birds
Subject: Re: [canberrabirds] Avian drama in backyard

 

Tsk tsk John.  You are surely aware that the (capitalised) Pale Male is a Red-tailed Hawk.  A pale male Collared Sparrowhawk would barely form an hors-d'ouevre for him!

Martin Butterfield

http://franmart.blogspot.com.au/

 

On 13 August 2018 at 10:56, John Layton <> wrote:

The stage was set and the cast in place but I missed most of the lead up and climax catching only the denouement. Happened like this, at 10:00AM yesterday I noticed a yellow Budgerigar perched on power cables presenting a conspicuous target for a hungry raptor. Speaking of which I walked past one only noticing it when back on the porch and generally perusing the scene. It was then I saw a male Collared Sparrowhawk perched on a fence where there’s a break in the neighbour’s Great Wall of Photinia. As is often the case with male Collared Sparrowhawks I marvelled at its smallness and remarkably pale plumage – Pale Male personified.
I needed to go indoors returning 15 minutes later but was unable to locate the hawk or the budgerigar until I noticed a stream of feathers glissading from atop a tall Silver Birch. And yes, they were yellow. Some 60 seconds later the sparrowhawk took off carrying its prey into a large gumtree 50 metres away.

 

John Layton

Holt.

 

 

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