|To:||"'Denis Wilson'" <>|
|Subject:||HANZAB ought be available on the Internet.|
|From:||"Philip Veerman" <>|
|Date:||Thu, 16 Jun 2011 23:14:46 +1000|
Sure it is perfectly fair to raise a suggestion. Denis asked Does COG have any involvement in Birds Australia, these days? Can we attempt to influence them to see the merits of regarding HANZAB as part of the Commons? I think it would be hypocrisy of COG to agitate on this, unless COG were to also put those publications - that it sells - on free use on the internet also.
I think any commercial or fair and reasonable individual reward for effort of the authors of the works of Shakespeare, Dickens, and The Bible (and presumably other vast numbers of other fine texts) has long since past its use by date, with no existing author available to receive royalties. Even so I see price tags on these books in the shops. So this consideration is different to a current publication. A relevant question is whether the financial investment in HANZAB has been recouped or ran at a loss. Although even if it has been recouped, it would still be inequitable to now make it freely available at the expense of those who have paid. Making things available on the internet on computer does not make it universally available. Computers and internet is expensive and are a barrier to many people. I know someone who bought the set of HANZAB on a impulse buy, as an investment, who probably rarely opens it and does not have a computer.
But I am confused about one thing. Denis told us that Birds Australia refuses to put HANZAB on the Internet. However Denis also says: Board of Birds Australia. ..... to suggest to them that they ought live up to the various promises which they have given, to at least provide a subscription service to HANZAB. I don't follow the connection between "various promises" (when & where) and "refuses". If indeed there is a conflict, the question is a fair one. I think it would be a huge admin load to implement providing a subscription service to HANZAB.
Yes there is a difference between referring to a reference text and plagiarising it. So my point on that is an aside and probably a minor one. Just that having it available on-line makes it so much easier to extract whole sections and thus plagiarise.
I accidentally typed the word "you" instead of "who", once in my last message: "those you have paid" should have been "those who have paid".
-----Original Message-----I thank the various members of the COG chatline for their responses - both on and off line.
From: Denis Wilson [
Sent: Thursday, 16 June 2011 9:56 PM
To: Geoffrey Dabb
Cc: COG bird discussions
Subject: Re: [canberrabirds] HANZAB ought be available on the Internet.
I realise that HANZAB was a huge publishing venture, and yes, of course I realise that there are commercial considerations involved.
However, my hope was that by throwing my little pebble in the pond of the COG Chatline, that one day a tsunami might just reach as far away as the hallowed halls of the Board of Birds Australia. If not a tsunami, then at least a ripple, to suggest to them that they ought live up to the various promises which they have given, to at least provide a subscription servce to HANZAB.
In response to one of Philip's points, there is a difference between referring to a reference text, for research purposes, and plagiarising it. Indeed there is the concept of "Fair Use" accepted within US Copyright Law, or "Fair Dealing" (in Australian law), and which has been accepted as part of Internet practice.
In answer to several (different) suggestions about why something which some people have paid large amounts of money for ought be available free - I would like to draw the distinction between the information available in HANZAB and the physical copies. We all know books have a value which is seldom related to the intrinsic worth of the information contained therein. Book collectors know that, Booksellers make a living from that, too.
Anthony Powell expressed that nicely with his work: "Books Do Furnish a Room".
I am inviting COG members to consider the information of HANZAB as being worthy of being demanded to enter the Commons. After all, Shakespeare, Dickens, and The Bible (and vast numbers of other fine texts) are all publicly available. I do not expect (or aspire) to own an historic version of the Bible, bound in black Moroccan Leather with a gold leaf lettering on the binding. But I can freely look up the passage in the New Testament where Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers in the Temple.
On the COG forum, that seems as good a point as any to leave this debate.
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Geoffrey Dabb <> wrote:
"The Nature of Robertson"
|<Prev in Thread]||Current Thread||[Next in Thread>|
|Previous by Date:||HANZAB ought be available on the Internet., Denis Wilson|
|Next by Date:||Discovery Writer's Series: 'A Bush Capital Year', Tony Lawson|
|Previous by Thread:||HANZAB ought be available on the Internet., Denis Wilson|
|Next by Thread:||HANZAB ought be available on the Internet., Julian Robinson|
|Indexes:||[Date] [Thread] [Top] [All Lists]|
The University of NSW School of Computer and Engineering takes no responsibility for the contents of this archive. It is purely a compilation of material sent by many people to the Canberra Ornithologists Group mailing list. It has not been checked for accuracy nor its content verified in any way. If you wish to get material removed from the archive or have other queries about the list contact David McDonald, list manager, phone (02) 6231 8904 or email . If you can not contact David McDonald e-mail Andrew Taylor at this address: firstname.lastname@example.org.EDU.AU