Juvenile Black-faced Monarch...or somethng else?

To: "birding aus" <>
Subject: Juvenile Black-faced Monarch...or somethng else?
From: "Tom Wilson" <>
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2021 16:10:37 +1100
Hi All
I was birding in North Turramurra (a northern suburb of Sydney) today (Sat 16 Jan 2021) in an area known to hold Black-faced Monarchs at this time of year (and they are there as I saw an adult and heard another calling).  At one point I saw a bird that was the right shape, but it was all grey expect for a paler patch between the eye and the bill, which was quite pale, and a small patch of orange around the vent and a little way up the belly (to about where the legs come out). It was high in a tree and well beyond the range of my camera equipment so nothing to share I am afraid.  The bird behaved like a flycatcher – working through the trees and making sallying flights out from a perch and back again, although not favouring a single perch.  I think it was a very young Black-faced Monarch, but all the images of juveniles I can find (in my books and on-line) show the orange from the chest down, so this bird would, on that basis, not be right in terms of the amount of orange although the pale around the face and pale bill are useful. 
The area also holds a pair of possibilities that I have ruled out - Leaden Flycatcher, but this bird was too thickset for a Leaden and did not flicker its tail or any of that sort of Leaden behaviour when perched; and Golden (but not Rufous) Whistlers – and the bill/head shape was wrong for Whistler, as was the sallying behaviour.
So my question is two fold – do the very fresh Black-faced Monarch fledglings have less orange and do they grow into their adult colouring?  And if not, what else it may have been?
Tom Wilson
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