birding-aus

Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing Point'?

To: "Nikolas Haass" <>, "Birding-Aus" <>
Subject: Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing Point'?
From: "Robert Inglis" <>
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 20:34:27 +1000
Thank you for that Nikolas. That is very helpful. I appreciate and value your 
input.

Bob Inglis
Sandstone Point
Qld



From: Nikolas Haass
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 8:18 PM
To: Robert Inglis ; Birding-Aus
Subject: Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing Point'?

Hi Bob,


Actually, Michael, Richard and Kevin (the three authors of The Shorebird Guide) 
used to be my "neighbours". I used to live in Philadelphia and my "local patch" 
used to be Cape May, where Michael, Richard and Kevin live. Yes, they use "wing 
point", which is interchangeable with "wing projection". I personally like the 
latter better (I also don't say "tail point" ;-)
The term "primary projection" refers to an actual measurement or ratio (i.e. % 
of tertial length) and number of visible primary tips beyond the longest 
tertial tip is an additional field mark.


Cheers,


Nikolas

----------------
Nikolas Haass

Sydney, NSW


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robert Inglis <>
To: Nikolas Haass <>; Birding-Aus <>
Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 7:29 PM
Subject: Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing Point'?


Thank you for that Nikolas.

If I may........
I would like a slight clarification.......

Could “primary projection” be expressed as “the number of primary tips 
extending beyond the longest tertial tip”? Or does it only refer to an actual 
measurement.

Please excuse me for being pedantic but I am like that.

I’m happy with the definition of “wing projection” but did you ever hear the 
term “wing point'” during your time in the USA?

Bob Inglis
Sandstone Point
Qld



From: Nikolas Haass
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 6:22 PM
To: Robert Inglis ; Birding-Aus
Subject: Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing Point'?

Collins Bird Guide (Mullarney/Svensson et al.):
Primary projection: the part of the primaries which on the folded wing extends 
beyond the tip of the tertials
Wing projection: the part of the wings which extends beyond the tail tip when 
the bird is perched


Cheers,


Nikolas


----------------
Nikolas Haass

Sydney, NSW


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robert Inglis <>
To: Birding-Aus <>
Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2011 11:35 AM
Subject: Question: 'Wing Projection' or 'Wing Point'?

I am looking for a term to use to refer to the extension of primary tips past 
the tip of the tail.

Preferably the term should not cause any confusion with the extension of 
primary tips past the tertials.

I am aware that “primary projection” is commonly used by many birders to 
describe both extension of the primary tips past the tertials and extension of 
the primary tips past the tip of the tail but this has been discussed on 
BirdingAus in the past and has been considered by some learned birders to be 
wrong.
That is, wrong when used to describe the extension of the primary tips past the 
tip of the tail.
One term for the extension of the primary tips past the tip of the tail 
suggested in that discussion was “wing projection”.
I have since discovered the term “wing point” to describe this condition in 
“The Shorebird Guide”, O’brien, Crossley and Karlson, 2006.
In the Glossary of that publication “Wing Point” is described as “The degree to 
which primaries project beyond the tail”.
This looks like what I want but I have been unable to find this term being used 
in any other of my bird books.
Searching on Google only brings up subjects on real estate in the USA and 
political discussions.

I ask members of the list to please share with me their ideas on which term is 
best used to describe the extension of the primary tips past the tip of the 
tail.

Personally I don’t favour “primary projection” but would be happy to use 
whichever of the terms “wing projection” or “wing point” is favoured by a 
majority.
My aim is to use a term which at least most birders can understand and accept.
I would, of course, be interested to see if there is another term which is 
commonly used and accepted....and is correct.

Bob Inglis
Sandstone Point
Qld

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