birding-aus

Red Wattle Birds

To: <>
Subject: Red Wattle Birds
From: Pat OMalley <>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:50:57 +1100
Andrea

Red Wattle Birds seem to have fled inner Sydney too, at least the inner west. 
Even non-birding friends have remarked on this.  I had put it down to the 
complete dominance of Noisy Miners ganging up and driving out competition - 
although what led to their expansion is moot. Surely if it we a drought issue 
(not so severe in Sydney) the Noisy Miners would be affected too - but seem to 
be flourishing.

Pat

____________________________________

Pat O'Malley
University of Sydney Professorial Research Fellow
Faculty of Law F10,  The University of Sydney
Sydney NSW 2006 Australia

Phone:  +61 2 9351 0395,  Fax:  +61 2  9351 0200
Email:   



From: 
Sent: Wed 25/02/2009 11:30
To: 
Subject: birding-aus Digest, Vol 35, Issue 35


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Today's Topics:

   1. RE: Subspecies vs Race (Tim Dolby)
   2. Bell Miners Displaced by the Fires and Injured    Wildlife.
      (Bob Dawson)
   3. Re: Re: rainbow lorikeet removal in unwanted areas (Terry Bishop)
   4. RE: Subspecies vs Race (Tim Dolby)
   5. RE: Subspecies vs Race (Jeff Davies)
   6. new birds (Robyn)
   7. (no subject) (robertgganly)
   8. RE: Scarcity of Wattlebirds (Steve Creber)
   9. RE: Subspecies vs Race (Tim Dolby)
  10. Missing Cockatoos (Roger Giller)
  11. Re: Lord Howe Island 
  12. Re: Missing Cockatoos (Andy Burton)
  13. Duck Shooting Poll (Peter Marsh)
  14. Eastern Yellow Wagtail at WTP (Paul Dodd)
  15. RE: Duck Shooting Poll (Peter Shute)
  16. Re: Subspecies vs Race (Nikolas Haass)
  17. Southport Pelagic 21st Feb 09 (Robert Inglis)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:02:14 +1100
From: "Tim Dolby" <>
Subject: Subspecies vs Race
To: "Birding Australia" <>
Message-ID:
        <>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi all,

Re subspecies vs race with my limited knowledge here's a bit of a rundown. 
Swedish biologist Carl van Linn (usually known by the Latin version of his name 
- Linnaeus) proposed that all species of plant and animal should be identified 
by a unique Latin name in a standard form. This consists of two parts: the name 
of the genus (or group of organisms), followed by a name identifying the 
species within the genus.

This system was extended in the nineteenth century to include the possibility 
to split a species into subspecies: if this is done a third name is added, 
identifying the subspecies (or race - the terms are interchangeable). One of 
the subspecies always takes the specific name . For example the scientific name 
for Yelow Wagatail is Motacilla flava, so there's bound to be a Motacilla flava 
flava (it's called the 'Blue-headed Wagtail'). This is called the nominate 
subspecies.

Often there's strong debate amongst taxonomist (and twitchers) about the very 
existence of species and subspecies. This seems to be the case with Yellow 
Wagtail. Phylogenetic studies suggest that the three eastern subspecies 
taivana, macronyx and tschutschensis are separate from the Western subspecies. 
Consequently these were combined to form the Eastern Yellow Wagtail. This seems 
to be backed up by bird calls - with all the Eastern subspecies sounding sharp, 
and the European/Western subspecies giving a smooth "pseeu".

Also although most bird field guides traditionally describe local subspecies 
they don't bother mapping them. Recently subspecies have started to appear in 
field guide maps, with a good example being Michael Morecombe's 'Field Guide to 
Australian Birds'. Personally I really like this approach, and commend Michael 
for his colour maps. Maps now distinguishing subspecies such as the 
'Black-winged Currawong', race melanoptera of the Grey Currawong, and the 
'Black-capped Sitella', race pileata of Varied Sitella (once considered full 
species). Despite the map boundaries usually being totally inaccurate, I find 
it a very useful visual way of seeing where one race begins and another ends.

Cheers,

Tim Dolby






-----Original Message-----
From:  
 On Behalf Of 

Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 8:30 AM
To: 
Subject: Subspecies vs Race

Hi birders.

What is the difference between subspecies and race? And how would they be
expressed when written when referring to a race or subspecies? Would they
be written in three parts as in Genus species subsp. or Genus species race?

Thanks in advance from the ultimate birding virgin. :)

Akos L

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:22:17 +1100
From: Bob Dawson <>
Subject: Bell Miners Displaced by the Fires and Injured
        Wildlife.
To: birding-aus <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Hi all



I have been involved for many years with Healesville Sanctuary and up until 5 
years ago lived in Chum Creek at the other end of Healesville from Badger Creek 
where the sanctuary is situated.



At both locations Bell Miners were common, but about 6-8 years ago they 
disappeaerd from both areas, I always wondered why and nobody there really 
seemed to know for sure. The common thought was that the dwindling canopy from 
the loss of many Manna gums and candlebarks was the reason. However they have 
now come back in quite large numbers and I assume they are birds from nearby 
areas that have been displaced by the fires.



On another note, the Healesville Sanctuary has been inundated with injured 
wildlife including many birds and is also supporting "frontline" triage centres 
both with staff and phone advise. If anyone would like to help there effort 
they can make a donation to the Healesville Sanctuary Australian Wildlife 
Health Centre Bushfire Appeal via the Zoos Victoria Foundation. 
www.zoo.org.au/donate



Regards



Bob

_________________________________________________________________
Get rid of those unwanted christmas presents! Get what you want at ebay.
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Frover%2Eebay%2Ecom%2Frover%2F1%2F705%2D10129%2D5668%2D323%2F4%3Fid%3D10&_t=763807330&_r=hotmailTAGLINES&_m=EXT

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:50:39 +1100 (AUS Eastern Daylight Time)
From: "Terry Bishop" <>
Subject: Re: rainbow lorikeet removal in unwanted
        areas
To: "Birding Australia" <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"

I have seen many species of birds and the owners blue heeler dog intoxicated
by eating the ground fall grapes. Quite a sight.

-------Original Message-------

From: Syd Curtis
Date: 24/02/2009 9:44:04 AM
To: Birding-aus
Subject: Re: rainbow lorikeet removal in unwanted areas

Seem to remember way back hearing of r. lorikeets (in Townsville maybe)
becoming intoxicated on fermenting nectar in, I think, flowers of Black Bean
(Castanospemum australe). So, how about some alcohol, and let 'em die happy?

Syd

> From: John Leonard <>
> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:36:50 +1100
> To: Birding-aus <>
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Re: rainbow lorikeet removal in unwanted areas
>
> I'm sure that this has been thought of, but it occurs to me that
> Rainbow Lorikeets must have a good sense of taste (to determine
> whether the nectar they are drinking is OK and isn't contaminated in
> some way. So the sedative used to put them to sleep would have to be
> tasteless.
>

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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:12:48 +1100
From: "Tim Dolby" <>
Subject: Subspecies vs Race
To: "Birding Australia" <>
Message-ID:
        <>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Apologies for this, to answer Akos's original question (rather than my own) - 
the word "species" is sometimes abbreviated to "sp" and the word "subspecies" 
to "ssp".

The scientific name (or Latin name - the words are interchangeable, although 
not all Latin names are Latin) are also sometimes shortened i.e. "Motacilla 
flava flava" to "M.f. flava". Now I should get back to work - I've got a class 
in front of me, and I'm actually really busy.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From:  on behalf of Tim Dolby
Sent: Tue 24/02/2009 1:02 PM
To: Birding Australia
Subject: Subspecies vs Race

Hi all,

Re subspecies vs race with my limited knowledge here's a bit of a rundown. 
Swedish biologist Carl van Linn (usually known by the Latin version of his name 
- Linnaeus) proposed that all species of plant and animal should be identified 
by a unique Latin name in a standard form. This consists of two parts: the name 
of the genus (or group of organisms), followed by a name identifying the 
species within the genus.

This system was extended in the nineteenth century to include the possibility 
to split a species into subspecies: if this is done a third name is added, 
identifying the subspecies (or race - the terms are interchangeable). One of 
the subspecies always takes the specific name . For example the scientific name 
for Yelow Wagatail is Motacilla flava, so there's bound to be a Motacilla flava 
flava (it's called the 'Blue-headed Wagtail'). This is called the nominate 
subspecies.

Often there's strong debate amongst taxonomist (and twitchers) about the very 
existence of species and subspecies. This seems to be the case with Yellow 
Wagtail. Phylogenetic studies suggest that the three eastern subspecies 
taivana, macronyx and tschutschensis are separate from the Western subspecies. 
Consequently these were combined to form the Eastern Yellow Wagtail. This seems 
to be backed up by bird calls - with all the Eastern subspecies sounding sharp, 
and the European/Western subspecies giving a smooth "pseeu".

Also although most bird field guides traditionally describe local subspecies 
they don't bother mapping them. Recently subspecies have started to appear in 
field guide maps, with a good example being Michael Morecombe's 'Field Guide to 
Australian Birds'. Personally I really like this approach, and commend Michael 
for his colour maps. Maps now distinguishing subspecies such as the 
'Black-winged Currawong', race melanoptera of the Grey Currawong, and the 
'Black-capped Sitella', race pileata of Varied Sitella (once considered full 
species). Despite the map boundaries usually being totally inaccurate, I find 
it a very useful visual way of seeing where one race begins and another ends.

Cheers,

Tim Dolby


-----Original Message-----
From:  
 On Behalf Of 

Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 8:30 AM
To: 
Subject: Subspecies vs Race

Hi birders.

What is the difference between subspecies and race? And how would they be
expressed when written when referring to a race or subspecies? Would they
be written in three parts as in Genus species subsp. or Genus species race?

Thanks in advance from the ultimate birding virgin. :)

Akos L

===============================
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
send the message:
unsubscribe
(in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
to: 





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:08:01 +1100
From: "Jeff Davies" <>
Subject: Subspecies vs Race
To: "'Tim Dolby'" <>,        "'Birding Australia'"
        <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

G'day Tim,

Just a quick clarification of Yellow Wagtail systematics while it's topical
with the bird showing at Werribee. The most recent work on this group is
adopted by Christidis and Boles 2008 and they list taivana as a separate
species the Green-headed Yellow Wagtail and tentatively suggest macronyx as
its nearest relative and a possible subspecies. The Eastern Yellow Wagtail
consists of tschutschensis as the nominate and includes simillima as an
extremely similar subspecies. Both of these two species as you correctly
point out are part of the eastern group of Yellow Wagtails that are
genetically distinct from the western group. Clearly there is still more
taxanomic fine tuning to be done with Yellow Wagtails, but its a complex
entanglement that may take a while to tease out.

Cheers Jeff.



-----Original Message-----
From: 
 On Behalf Of Tim Dolby
Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 1:02 PM
To: Birding Australia
Subject: Subspecies vs Race

Hi all,

Re subspecies vs race with my limited knowledge here's a bit of a rundown.
Swedish biologist Carl van Linn (usually known by the Latin version of his
name - Linnaeus) proposed that all species of plant and animal should be
identified by a unique Latin name in a standard form. This consists of two
parts: the name of the genus (or group of organisms), followed by a name
identifying the species within the genus.

This system was extended in the nineteenth century to include the
possibility to split a species into subspecies: if this is done a third name
is added, identifying the subspecies (or race - the terms are
interchangeable). One of the subspecies always takes the specific name . For
example the scientific name for Yelow Wagatail is Motacilla flava, so
there's bound to be a Motacilla flava flava (it's called the 'Blue-headed
Wagtail'). This is called the nominate subspecies.

Often there's strong debate amongst taxonomist (and twitchers) about the
very existence of species and subspecies. This seems to be the case with
Yellow Wagtail. Phylogenetic studies suggest that the three eastern
subspecies taivana, macronyx and tschutschensis are separate from the
Western subspecies. Consequently these were combined to form the Eastern
Yellow Wagtail. This seems to be backed up by bird calls - with all the
Eastern subspecies sounding sharp, and the European/Western subspecies
giving a smooth "pseeu".

Also although most bird field guides traditionally describe local subspecies
they don't bother mapping them. Recently subspecies have started to appear
in field guide maps, with a good example being Michael Morecombe's 'Field
Guide to Australian Birds'. Personally I really like this approach, and
commend Michael for his colour maps. Maps now distinguishing subspecies such
as the 'Black-winged Currawong', race melanoptera of the Grey Currawong, and
the 'Black-capped Sitella', race pileata of Varied Sitella (once considered
full species). Despite the map boundaries usually being totally inaccurate,
I find it a very useful visual way of seeing where one race begins and
another ends.

Cheers,

Tim Dolby






-----Original Message-----
From: 
 On Behalf Of

Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 8:30 AM
To: 
Subject: Subspecies vs Race

Hi birders.

What is the difference between subspecies and race? And how would they be
expressed when written when referring to a race or subspecies? Would they
be written in three parts as in Genus species subsp. or Genus species race?

Thanks in advance from the ultimate birding virgin. :)

Akos L

===============================
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
send the message:
unsubscribe
(in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
to: 
===============================
==========www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
send the message:
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(in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
to: 
===========



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:12:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Robyn <>
Subject: new birds
To: 
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

tried to access ur website to report "new" birds to North Geelong but its be=
ensuspended - is there a new one - "new birds" are I think white tailed bla=
ck cockatoo as when they fly over I can see white under tail - come in morn=
ing and evening - quite a few of them - usual habitat I believe is south we=
st corner of WA - what food should I put out for them - ????//parrot rings?=
????????=A0 many thanx









take care & God Bless Robyn (O'Dale)


      Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take 
a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:47:16 +1100
From: "robertgganly" <>
Subject: (no subject)
To: <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"

Re Yellow Wagtail

Seen at 10.30 AM on seaside of gate at 85WA outlet before flying east along
beach by 5 observers

Per Rob Ganly for Ian, Kay, Don & Rhonda.





------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 08:59:05 +1100
From: "Steve Creber" <>
Subject: Scarcity of Wattlebirds
To: <>,        <>
Message-ID:
        <>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Perhaps they've started their Autumn flocking early - that tends to take
them out of their regular territories.

-----Original Message-----
From: 
 On Behalf Of

Sent: Monday, 23 February 2009 6:00 PM
To: 
Subject: Scarcity of Wattlebirds

  Red Wattlebirds are normally common around Ivanhoe and I suppose in
most Melbourne
suburbs.
  This morning I heard a few calls from a Little Wattlebird in our
garden, which
reminded me that I hadn't seen or heard any, either Red or Little, here
for at least
three weeks. (Locally the Little WB tends to be a winter-spring bird).

  Last week I did not see or hear any RWBs at Banyule Flats.  However at
Wilson Reserve
there were about two Red Wattlebirds near the Yarra.

  I suppose we have to blame the drought. But where have they gone?

Anthea Fleming



===============================
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:24:37 +1100
From: "Tim Dolby" <>
Subject: Subspecies vs Race
To: "Jeff Davies" <>,     "Birding Australia"
        <>
Message-ID:
        <>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks Jeff, yes, this makes sense. From the original Eastern Yellow Wagtail 
split (taivana, macronyx and tschutschensis) via C&B 2008 comes Eastern Yellow 
Wagtail (tschutschensis & synonymised simillima) and Green-headed Yellow 
Wagtail or Green-headed Wagtail (taivana nominate and possibly macronyx). 
George Swann had both tschutschensis and taivana in Broome this time last year 
- maybe it's time for a trip to Broome.

Cheers,

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Davies 
Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 3:08 PM
To: Tim Dolby; 'Birding Australia'
Subject: Subspecies vs Race

G'day Tim,

Just a quick clarification of Yellow Wagtail systematics while it's topical
with the bird showing at Werribee. The most recent work on this group is
adopted by Christidis and Boles 2008 and they list taivana as a separate
species the Green-headed Yellow Wagtail and tentatively suggest macronyx as
its nearest relative and a possible subspecies. The Eastern Yellow Wagtail
consists of tschutschensis as the nominate and includes simillima as an
extremely similar subspecies. Both of these two species as you correctly
point out are part of the eastern group of Yellow Wagtails that are
genetically distinct from the western group. Clearly there is still more
taxanomic fine tuning to be done with Yellow Wagtails, but it's a complex
entanglement that may take a while to tease out.

Cheers Jeff.



-----Original Message-----
From: 
 On Behalf Of Tim Dolby
Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 1:02 PM
To: Birding Australia
Subject: Subspecies vs Race

Hi all,

Re subspecies vs race with my limited knowledge here's a bit of a rundown.
Swedish biologist Carl van Linn (usually known by the Latin version of his
name - Linnaeus) proposed that all species of plant and animal should be
identified by a unique Latin name in a standard form. This consists of two
parts: the name of the genus (or group of organisms), followed by a name
identifying the species within the genus.

This system was extended in the nineteenth century to include the
possibility to split a species into subspecies: if this is done a third name
is added, identifying the subspecies (or race - the terms are
interchangeable). One of the subspecies always takes the specific name . For
example the scientific name for Yelow Wagatail is Motacilla flava, so
there's bound to be a Motacilla flava flava (it's called the 'Blue-headed
Wagtail'). This is called the nominate subspecies.

Often there's strong debate amongst taxonomist (and twitchers) about the
very existence of species and subspecies. This seems to be the case with
Yellow Wagtail. Phylogenetic studies suggest that the three eastern
subspecies taivana, macronyx and tschutschensis are separate from the
Western subspecies. Consequently these were combined to form the Eastern
Yellow Wagtail. This seems to be backed up by bird calls - with all the
Eastern subspecies sounding sharp, and the European/Western subspecies
giving a smooth "pseeu".

Also although most bird field guides traditionally describe local subspecies
they don't bother mapping them. Recently subspecies have started to appear
in field guide maps, with a good example being Michael Morecombe's 'Field
Guide to Australian Birds'. Personally I really like this approach, and
commend Michael for his colour maps. Maps now distinguishing subspecies such
as the 'Black-winged Currawong', race melanoptera of the Grey Currawong, and
the 'Black-capped Sitella', race pileata of Varied Sitella (once considered
full species). Despite the map boundaries usually being totally inaccurate,
I find it a very useful visual way of seeing where one race begins and
another ends.

Cheers,

Tim Dolby






-----Original Message-----
From: 
 On Behalf Of

Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 8:30 AM
To: 
Subject: Subspecies vs Race

Hi birders.

What is the difference between subspecies and race? And how would they be
expressed when written when referring to a race or subspecies? Would they
be written in three parts as in Genus species subsp. or Genus species race?

Thanks in advance from the ultimate birding virgin. :)

Akos L

===============================
www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
send the message:
unsubscribe
(in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
to: 
===============================
==========www.birding-aus.org
birding-aus.blogspot.com

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send the message:
unsubscribe
(in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
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===========



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:09:14 +1100
From: "Roger Giller" <>
Subject: Missing Cockatoos
To: "Birding-Aus" <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi All,

I was at Wattle Flat in Royal National Park today. Over a 3 hour period I saw 
only one Sulphur Crested Cockatoo. Normally there are large numbers of these 
calling and flying about. They come into the picnic shed and get in to any 
lunch bags etc. left on the tables and generally make a nuisance of themselves.

Would anybody know why they seem to have moved away?

The Little Corellas that have been there the last few months were also absent. 
Plenty of Noisy Friarbirds though.


Roger Giller


------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 18:02:40 +1100
From: 
Subject: Lord Howe Island
To: "Paul Doyle" <>,  "birding aus"
        <>
Message-ID:
        
<>
        
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Paul

I'm heading off to Lord Howe Island in mid March and I'm really looking
forward to my visit.

I found a copy of McAllan, Curtis, Hutton & Cooper 2004, The Birds of the
Lord Howe Island Group: A Review of Records, Australian Field Ornithology
21 at the Bird Observers shop in Nunawading (Vic) and it is very
informative.  I also managed to pick up a copy of Alan and Valrie Finch,
Lord Howe Island, a 1967 publication that provides a good context for
understanding human impact on the island's flora and fauna.

I intend to buy Ian Hutton's Birds of Lord Howe Island when I get there
(keeping under the luggage weight restrictions on the way in) and the
information pack I just received says that there is a bird list available
at the visitor centre for $3.00.

Regards

David




                                                                          
             "Paul Doyle"                                                 
             <                                            
             net.com.au>                                                To
             Sent by:                  "Birding Aus"                      
             birding-aus-bounc         <>        
                                                        cc
                                                                          
                                                                   Subject
             17/02/09 04:17 PM         [Birding-Aus] Lord Howe Island     
                                                                          
                                                                          
                                                                          
                                                                          
                                                                          
                                                                          




Hi all,
for those who did not see my earlier email cleverly conceleaed under a
misleading subject line, can someone please direct me to a checklist of
birds for Lord Howe Island?
(thanks evan!)

Paul

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------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:21:52 +1100
From: Andy Burton <>
Subject: Missing Cockatoos
To: "Roger Giller" <>
Cc: 
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"


They were there last Thursday, in good numbers.

Andy





>Hi All,
>
>I was at Wattle Flat in Royal National Park today. Over a 3 hour
>period I saw only one Sulphur Crested Cockatoo. Normally there are
>large numbers of these calling and flying about. They come into the
>picnic shed and get in to any lunch bags etc. left on the tables and
>generally make a nuisance of themselves.
>
>Would anybody know why they seem to have moved away?
>
>The Little Corellas that have been there the last few months were
>also absent. Plenty of Noisy Friarbirds though.
>
>
>Roger Giller
>
>www.birding-aus.org
>birding-aus.blogspot.com
>
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
>send the message:
>unsubscribe
>(in the body of the message, with no Subject line)
>to: 



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:06:17 +1100
From: "Peter Marsh" <>
Subject: Duck Shooting Poll
To: "birding-aus" <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Dear Birders,
AS Chair of BASNA I received the following e-mail today. I voted and the site 
then reported nearly 60% in FAVOUR OF DUCK SHOOTING. Please vote and get the 
balance back the other way.

"The link below is a poll on duck shooting.

>From what we have been told, the shooters have contacted all their members to 
>complete the poll!

Now, it is our turn.
So far the results are very much in the pro-hunting camp which we know is not 
accurate of what the general public thinks.

Please pass this onto family and friends and vote to ban this barbaric activity.

http://www.theage.com.au/polls/national/form.html - vote no you don't agree 
with duck shooting season

Please help us to get duck shooting banned."

Regards

Peter Marsh




------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:14:19 +1100
From: "Paul Dodd" <>
Subject: Eastern Yellow Wagtail at WTP
To: <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"

Ruth Woodrow, Tony Russell, Edna Pascoe, Russell Woodford and myself went to
the WTP this evening to look for the Yellow Wagtail. We initially caught a
brief glimpse of the bird on the south side of the gate near the outlet of
the 85WA lagoon at around 5:15pm. The bird flew off to the west on seeing
us. We drove along the coastal track from the white gateposts where Ruth and
I first saw the bird on Saturday to the eastern corner of the 85WB lagoon
and back several times before catching up with the bird again on one of the
rocky coves on the western bank of the 85WA lagoon near the outlet (about
10m from the gate) at around 7:00pm. We had good views of the bird on the
rocks and on the muddy shore for about 20 minutes.



If you don't have a map that names the ponds, then the easiest way to find
the spot is to cross the ford and head along the track parallel to Little
River, through the white gateposts directly opposite the hide. Keep
following the track and cross the rocky beach, then follow the track until
you reach a gate. The gate doesn't require a key. Once through the gate, you
will notice some white barriers and a walkway to your left - this is the
outlet to the 85WA lagoon which is directly in front of you. The wagtail
seems to favour the rocky and muddy shores of this lagoon, close to the
gate.



A good strategy for seeing this bird is to stay in your car as it is
extremely flighty. Drive slowly along the track from the white gateposts to
the far side of 85WA and back - checking the track and particularly the
shores of the lagoons. Only once you have seen the bird should you consider
getting out of the car. I managed to get out and carefully set up the scope
without scaring it, but I was very slow and quiet outside the car.



Paul Dodd

Docklands, Victoria





------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 06:55:40 +1100
From: Peter Shute <>
Subject: Duck Shooting Poll
To: Peter Marsh <>, birding-aus
        <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

With over 5,300 votes, this is this the biggest poll by far in the list of 
results of past Age polls, which goes back as far as December 2007.  The first 
poll listed is for "Is the Victorian Government right to cancel next year's 
duck hunting season?", which only got 1120 votes.  The Yes vote was 83%.

It will take 1000 votes to even this poll up.

Even though these polls are statistically meaningless, they are probably a good 
indication of how organised each side is.  Given the huge number of voters in 
this one, both sides are fairly well organised.

Peter Shute

________________________________________
From:   On 
Behalf Of Peter Marsh 
Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 10:06 PM
To: birding-aus
Subject: Duck Shooting Poll

Dear Birders,
AS Chair of BASNA I received the following e-mail today. I voted and the site 
then reported nearly 60% in FAVOUR OF DUCK SHOOTING. Please vote and get the 
balance back the other way.

"The link below is a poll on duck shooting.

>From what we have been told, the shooters have contacted all their members to 
>complete the poll!

Now, it is our turn.
So far the results are very much in the pro-hunting camp which we know is not 
accurate of what the general public thinks.

Please pass this onto family and friends and vote to ban this barbaric activity.

http://www.theage.com.au/polls/national/form.html - vote no you don't agree 
with duck shooting season

Please help us to get duck shooting banned."

Regards

Peter Marsh


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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:35:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Nikolas Haass <>
Subject: Subspecies vs Race
To: Jeff Davies <>, Tim Dolby
        <>,  Birding Australia <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi Jeff et al.,

Yes, reading Pavlova et al (2003) and Voelker (2002) in contrast to Sangster et 
al (1999) and Alstroem & Mild (2003) is interesting (all are discussed in 
Christidis  & Boles 2008). However, I am still surprised that the very 
different feldegg (both males and females look very different from the other 
Western Yellow Wagtails and also their calls differ significantly [more like 
Eastern Yellow Wagtail]) is genetically part of the Western complex. I agree 
that there might be some more taxonomic fine tuning to be done.

Nikolas

 ----------------
Nikolas Haass

Sydney, NSW



----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Davies <>
To: Tim Dolby <>; Birding Australia 
<>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 3:08:01 PM
Subject: Subspecies vs Race

G'day Tim,

Just a quick clarification of Yellow Wagtail systematics while it's topical
with the bird showing at Werribee. The most recent work on this group is
adopted by Christidis and Boles 2008 and they list taivana as a separate
species the Green-headed Yellow Wagtail and tentatively suggest macronyx as
its nearest relative and a possible subspecies. The Eastern Yellow Wagtail
consists of tschutschensis as the nominate and includes simillima as an
extremely similar subspecies. Both of these two species as you correctly
point out are part of the eastern group of Yellow Wagtails that are
genetically distinct from the western group. Clearly there is still more
taxanomic fine tuning to be done with Yellow Wagtails, but it's a complex
entanglement that may take a while to tease out.

Cheers Jeff.



-----Original Message-----
From: 
 On Behalf Of Tim Dolby
Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 1:02 PM
To: Birding Australia
Subject: Subspecies vs Race

Hi all,

Re subspecies vs race with my limited knowledge here's a bit of a rundown.
Swedish biologist Carl van Linné (usually known by the Latin version of his
name - Linnaeus) proposed that all species of plant and animal should be
identified by a unique Latin name in a standard form. This consists of two
parts: the name of the genus (or group of organisms), followed by a name
identifying the species within the genus.

This system was extended in the nineteenth century to include the
possibility to split a species into subspecies: if this is done a third name
is added, identifying the subspecies (or race - the terms are
interchangeable). One of the subspecies always takes the specific name . For
example the scientific name for Yelow Wagatail is Motacilla flava, so
there's bound to be a Motacilla flava flava (it's called the 'Blue-headed
Wagtail'). This is called the nominate subspecies.

Often there's strong debate amongst taxonomist (and twitchers) about the
very existence of species and subspecies. This seems to be the case with
Yellow Wagtail. Phylogenetic studies suggest that the three eastern
subspecies taivana, macronyx and tschutschensis are separate from the
Western subspecies. Consequently these were combined to form the Eastern
Yellow Wagtail. This seems to be backed up by bird calls - with all the
Eastern subspecies sounding sharp, and the European/Western subspecies
giving a smooth "pseeu".

Also although most bird field guides traditionally describe local subspecies
they don't bother mapping them. Recently subspecies have started to appear
in field guide maps, with a good example being Michael Morecombe's 'Field
Guide to Australian Birds'. Personally I really like this approach, and
commend Michael for his colour maps. Maps now distinguishing subspecies such
as the 'Black-winged Currawong', race melanoptera of the Grey Currawong, and
the 'Black-capped Sitella', race pileata of Varied Sitella (once considered
full species). Despite the map boundaries usually being totally inaccurate,
I find it a very useful visual way of seeing where one race begins and
another ends.

Cheers,

Tim Dolby






-----Original Message-----
From: 
 On Behalf Of

Sent: Tuesday, 24 February 2009 8:30 AM
To: 
Subject: Subspecies vs Race

Hi birders.

What is the difference between subspecies and race? And how would they be
expressed when written when referring to a race or subspecies? Would they
be written in three parts as in Genus species subsp. or Genus species race?

Thanks in advance from the ultimate birding virgin. :)

Akos L

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------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:01:13 +1000
From: "Robert Inglis" <>
Subject: Southport Pelagic 21st Feb 09
To: "Birding-Aus" <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

Paul is having trouble posting this report to BirdingAus so he has asked me
to try.
The form of the text is as received by me. I am not responsible for the
asterisks or any spelling problems detected by the Windows Spell-checker.

Bob Inglis



                                   Southport Pelagic Report 21st Feb
2009




Vessel: 37ft Monohull, MV Grinner
Skipper: Craig Newton
Deckhand: Gailforce
Pax: Paul Walbridge (leader & organizer), Brian Russell, Jim Sneddon,
Richard Fuller, Greg Anderson, Grant Penrhyn, Ross Gallardy, Alex
Ferguson, Heyn Dekocq, Colin Lunt, Inger Van Dyke, Henry Marshall, Ellen
Thompson.

Weather conditions: Light SE to E winds, 10-15 knots. Light cloud cover
producing hazy conditions, visibility less than excellent. Barometer
1018 hPa, max. air temperature 27* C.

Sea conditions: Light seas mostly, max. .5 of a metre on up to 1.5
metre swell. Sea surface temp. 26* C at the Seaway, 27.52* C at the
Shelfbreak & 27.84* C at the widest point.

Left the Seaway at 0611 hrs, travelled out over the Shelf with some
diversions, reaching the Shelfbreak at approx. 1000 hrs & the widest
point at 1109, approx. 50 klms ENE of the Southport Seaway. Spent the
next 1 *  hours drifting, leaving for home at 1230 hrs arriving back at
the Seaway at 1550 hrs. Duration of trip 9hrs 39mins.

On leaving the Seaway several trawlers were heading in and the next 40
minutes were spent zigzagging between them with several hundreds of
Wedge-tailed Shearwaters present along with Pomarine Jaegers, Crested
Terns, Silver Gulls and two species of Cormorants. An amusing sight was
one trawlers* outrigger guy ropes festooned with Little Black
Cormorants.

Just after 0700 hrs in 47 fathoms in an area known to locals as *spot
X* a huge amount of bait fish produced the first Tahiti Petrel &
Streaked Shearwater of the day plus several Wedge-tailed Shearwaters and
Southports* 2nd record of Red-footed Booby. Kept heading out with more
species appearing such as Flesh-footed Shearwater, Arctic Jaeger, Common
Noddy, Hutton*s Shearwater and Sooty Tern.

On reaching the widest drift point, the next hour and a half didn*t
produce much more than a few more Tahiti Petrels and Wedge-tailed
Shearwaters plus a solitary Great-winged Petrel. On leaving for home
however a second Red-footed Booby arrived (both these birds were adults,
different plumages).

Heading back over the Shelf, several Tahiti Petrels kept appearing
until just offshore from the Seaway where 2 were present with a third
Streaked Shearwater, 70 Wedge-tailed Shearwaters and a Pomarine Jaeger.
Congratulations are in order for INGER, she*s finally seen the
*Southport Chook*. Richard can now get a good nights sleep!!!


Species List

Wedge-tailed Shearwater * 691 (500)
Flesh-footed Shearwater * 4 (2)
Streaked Shearwater * 3 (1)
Hutton*s Shearwater - 2 (1)
Tahiti Petrel * 15 (5)
Great-winged Petrel * 1
Red-footed Booby * 2 (1)
Little Black Cormorant * 18 (16)
Pied Cormorant * 3
Pomarine Jaeger * 6 (1)
Arctic Jaeger * 4 (2)
Common Noddy * 2
Sooty Tern * 3 (2)
Common Tern - 1
Crested Tern * 213 (150)
Silver Gull * 61 (60)

Mammals

Inshore Bottle-nosed Dolphin * 3
Offshore Bottle-nosed Dolphin - several


Next trip is on Saturday 21st of March, with a couple of spaces still
open. Cheers * Paul W.






------------------------------

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