Hi All,
I actually wasn’t going to contribute to
this thread but feel it is time that I should.
I have been in the position of organising,
leading and contributing to trips now for six years and I have to agree to
Simon’s viewpoint in this instance.
Not once, during six years of doing this
style of thing have I ever pulled out of a trip leaving the organiser to pay
for my seat. I simply would never do
this. Why?
I feel that at this point, I should attempt
to outline the amount of work that goes into organising pelagics and the level
of commitment involved to ensure that manifests are kept straight, monies and
taxes are collected and the vessel is prepared for sea.
While many of the participants of these
trips are sitting at home enjoying their dinners with family and friends, the
organisers and their families are the ones who are up late answering emails and
fielding phone calls, keeping records, assisting participants with finding
accommodation, making sure they can get to the boat, car pooling etc. So there
go our weekday nights.
On the day, when participants are queuing
up at the dock waiting to board at 7am,having woken up at 6am, had a leisurely
breakfast and sauntered down to the dock, I am the person who has been up since
4am mixing burley, hosing down the decks, making sure the boat has enough fuel
and that the kettle is on in time for you to arrive. During the trip, I am
making you coffee, making you comfortable
if you are seasick fetching biscuits and drinks and in the middle of all of it,
pointing out the difference between one albatross and another. After you get
off the boat at 3 or 4pm, I am
then the person who cleans out the burley bucket, hoses the decks down and
checks that everyone has their gear before they disembark as often participants
are tired after a day out there and forget their stuff. While participants are
enjoying hot showers, a nap before dinner, and looking through their photos, I
am just finishing work at around 5 to 6 pm so it’s a
14 hour day for me. Then when we get
home, we have trip reports to write up and emails to answer from participants
who are querying exact numbers of birds they saw and what type.
So if I go for free (which I often don’t),
this means that my salary of $100 of what you deem to be ‘gratis’ really pays
me less than $10 per hour to make sure everything runs smoothly and this figure
drops significantly if you factor in the amount of hours spent in front of the
computer and unpaid for telephone calls to participants which are not
on-charged. I haven’t begun to factor
in the cost of burley and maintenance on boats on top of all that.
If you decide to take these trips on to a
whole new plateau and organise them to the Torres Strait, Christmas Island or
one of the offshore Territories the level of work increases exponentially as
participants fly in from all over the country and you have to advise them on
what to take, dietary requirements, the correct inoculations to get before they
leave – well I could go on for a while about this.
Yes, these trips are expensive for birders
on a budget, but the offshore trips end up being very tight financially and the
fact that George Swann breaks even on his Ashmore Reef trips when the cost per
participant is $4,700+ did not surprise me at all. I would assume this cost
per participant only counts for the cost
of the boat. What wage would George get
for being that person sitting up every night taking calls?
So why do we do all of this? It’s because we love it. We love sharing our
knowledge of birds with
others and showing people the wonders of pelagic birding. We meet some
fantastic people involved in
the birding community who have both impressed and enthralled us with their own
stories and trips. Our trip reports
contribute to the body of knowledge contained here and give people a real idea
about seasonality and movements of many birds.
Above all, we are totally committed to pelagics, the thrills they entail
and the level of enjoyment that each participant goes away with. If we were
any less committed, we wouldn’t organise
them.
For me, the $ value is insignificant. Whether someone pays hard cash for their
guide/organiser or not or even if this is declared beforehand does not worry me
at all. I know the work involved that the organiser puts in and they are
worth all of that, plus more.
It’s one of those odd sort of jobs where
everyone thinks it’s a ‘dream career’ but ask any guide who works in Antarctica
with people how they feel at the end of a season and most of them are
completely ‘over it’. Believe me if you
think they are millionaires financially for the work they do? I am sorry but I
would disagree with you on
every level.
This mail is not meant to denigrate or
point the finger at any one on this board as I value the input of people here
tremendously.
I just thought I would give you an idea of
what it’s like to be behind the scenes on these trips when perhaps some of you
might not understand this.
Cheers,
Inger Vandyke
> From:
> To: ; ;
> Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Ashmore Reef Whales and Seabirds
> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:23:08 +1000
> CC:
>
> As a general rule I would have no issue with someone that is organising the
> trip having their portion subsidised or paid entirely, provided:
>
> 1. It was clearly stated up front that the organiser was not paying their
> own way.
>
> 2. The amount of work put into organising the trip justifies that level of
> subsidy (in other words, the other participants receive value for money).
>
> I think the sticking point for is number 1 - I'm not sure how common it is
> for organisers to have a subsidised trip, but I've never seen it mentioned
> or disclosed.
>
> Paul Dodd
> Docklands, Melbourne
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> On Behalf Of Tony Russell
> Sent: Wednesday, 18 June 2008 5:59 PM
> To: 'peter crow'; 'Tim Dolby'
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: [Birding-Aus] Ashmore Reef Whales and Seabirds
>
> I'm with you on this one Peter. I don't mind anyone organising trips but
> they should really pay their own way. I now only go on trips for which
> the cost is shared evenly among ALL participants. If the cost is $20,000
> and 10 people go then it's $2,000 each thank you. None of this riding
> on other people's backs. That's just exploitation.
>
> T.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> On Behalf Of peter crow
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:58 PM
> To: Tim Dolby
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] Ashmore Reef Whales and Seabirds
>
>
> Tim and Simon,
>
> I have a major problem with people who organise trip for groups where
> everyone supposedly shares the cost but the one organising the trip
> manages to get a free trip from the travel agent or whoever for
> recruiting ten or what ever number of participants.
>
> I have twice been slightly involved with this sort of event. The
> first time I was caught. The second I found out in time and with
> drew. Much to my satisfaction this left less than the prescribed
> number and the "organiser" had to contribute.
>
> I find it extremely unpleasant when some one sets them selves up as
> organising a trip to benefit all but which is really to secretly
> benefit only themselves.
>
> Peter
>
>
> On 18/06/2008, at 11:32 AM, Tim Dolby wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes, excellent points Simon, well said, and thanks for your honest
> > reply. I couldn't agree more. As mentioned I have absolutely no
> > problem with the Ashmore Reef trips, or anybody who organises them,
> > or for that matter any other organised birding trips. Birding trips
> > are what birding is all about - and for whatever reason - whether
> > it's data collection or just pure birding fun.
> >
> > This was not the reason I replied to your message. The reason I
> > replied was because you contextualised it in terms of 'commercial'
> > versus 'non-commercial' birding.
> >
> > My problem is (and it's a bit of a personal gripe, apologies
> > everyone and Simon for the whinge) when birders try to get other
> > people to pay for their birding trips, whether in Australian waters
> > or to overseas destinations (such as South America), often under
> > the guise of trip sharing rather than commercialisation. You
> > mention that as long as people are honest and don't take the
> > proverbial there's no problem. I couldn't agree more. However what
> > about when people are taking the proverbial. From personal
> > experience birding is very addictive. It can also be a very very
> > expensive. As a result, like anything else, it is open to potential
> > bad practice. Although, as you pointed out, rather than being a
> > negative, there may be some merit in this?
> >
> > Tig what wonderful discoveries they come back with.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Simon Mustoe.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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