FW: [Birding-Aus] House Crows and ticking ethics

To: <>
Subject: FW: [Birding-Aus] House Crows and ticking ethics
From: "Steve Ransom" <>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:16:22 +1100
For my part, I think that this bird is tickable (and indeed I did tick
the one I saw in the Melbourne Botanic Gardens about 4 years ago).

A house crow is hardly a common aviary bird; but it is known to stow
away on ships, of its own volition. I think in a port town like Sydney
it is reasonable to say that the most likely circumstance is that it is
a ship assisted arrival, not an aviary/cage escapee.

Is the debate that ship assisted arrivals are/are not tickable?

As far as the argument that we need a "self sustaining breeding
population" to tick a bird, this is clearly not true in all cases.
Single vagrant birds are ticked all the time.

Stephen Ransom

-----Original Message-----
 On Behalf Of Chris Sanderson
Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2008 11:55 AM
To: Tony Russell
Cc: Birding Aus; Alan McBride
Subject: House Crows and ticking ethics

Hi Tony,

I think Evan's point isn't that you left them out of your discussion,
more do you have a reliable way of telling which is which?  For example,
do you know someone didn't have a pet House Crow that escaped?  Bad
probably but if I told you there was a Blue and Yellow Macaw flying
in my back yard would you come and tick it?  What about a Java Sparrow?
something really contentious like a Blue Rock Thrush?

I think it's important for each odd bird that is found to have the
that it's a caged bird that has been released or escaped assessed.
Which as
I understand is pretty much what we already do.


ps. while I agree with Evan about putting what you want on your list,
only works if you're not competing with other twitchers.  If you are you
need to use the same rules or it's not fair.

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Tony Russell <>

> Ok, I hadn't considered them part of the discussion, but surely once
> even escapes or releases establish viable populations, we have to
> them to our listings. Hence dear old Starlings, Sparrows, Mynas,
> Goldfinches, Greenfinches, Blackbirds etc etc are all now included
> because we can't get rid of them and it's foolish to ignore them.
> T.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Evan Beaver 
> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:38 AM
> To: Tony Russell
> Cc: Alan McBride; Birding Aus
> Subject: Re: [Birding-Aus] House Crows and ticking ethics
> Not that it matters in any way to me, but there's a hole in your logic
> Tony that seems to allow escapees and releases. But, as I've said
> before, tick what ever you see fit, it's your list, no-one else
> (should) care what's on it.
> I however won't be ticking it, and hope that it's destroyed before
> slinking off to find the rest of the House Crow secret society, lying
> wait for sufficient numbers to arrive and begin breeding, and fulfil
> their ultimate goal of destroying all native avifauna.
> EB
> On 3/27/08, Tony Russell <> wrote:
> My stance is that if the bird is in Oz, no matter how it got here,
> it's tickable, and no amount of contention as to it's mode of travel
> relevant.
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