birding-aus

orders and stuff again

To: "Cas and Lisa (also Silvia, Max & Viveka) Liber" <>, <>
Subject: orders and stuff again
From: "Tim Murphy" <>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:19:30 +1000
Logically the DNA should be a perfect measure of descent. There are a number
of problems with some of the current DNA evidence.

It is sometimes based upon a staggeringly SMALL number of samples.

The base assumption is that mitochondria always come from the mother and
that the DNA pool is not effected by large out-crossings (inter-genera
mating). If this breaks down even one time in a thousand it can effect the
results.

Lamark might not have been totally wrong - there is some bits of evidence
that way.

Do viruses and RNA transcription have any effect??

So, the more you look the more muddy it gets.

I'd advise that everyone to get a book, I use Clements which has the
advantage of being constantly updated, and follow that.

The birds don't care.

Best regards

Tim Murphy

I like the idea of doing it by altitude. Where would you put the Bar-headed
Goose which has been seen flying over Everest? And the Andean Hillstar and
the Little Hermit (both Hummers)?


-----Original Message-----
From: 
 Behalf Of Cas and Lisa
(also Silvia, Max & Viveka) Liber
Sent: Friday, 26 March 2004 6:42 AM
To: 
Subject: orders and stuff again


I was thinking about this and would suggest the algorithm goes:

If the DNA sequencing is robust and not disputed anymore then that sequence
of relationships should form the basis of any ordering in bird texts. It
actually doesn't take very long to get a 'feel' of a book in this order
(think about where you look things up in the sunday paper (or similar text,
which you know), and then there is a more satisfying feeling of seeing and
learning more about the relationships because you flick through it every
time you open the book....

Question is, how robust is the DNA evidence and is it accepted by
all....................
cladistically,
Cas


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