Re: Longevity or "Shortevity" Banded birds, Peter Ewin

To: Birding-Aus <>
Subject: Re: Longevity or "Shortevity" Banded birds, Peter Ewin
From: John Gamblin <>
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:51:25 -0700 (PDT)
Peter Ewin <> wrote:

Come now David - you must have seen that one coming.

Now now Peter you assume David is not Blind and
Give the man a chance to prove this.

You should know by now that when banding items come up
the same old arguments get used (over and over and
over). The problem with using the work e-mail that
doesn't seem to have a filter mechanism on it.

A couple of things I would add to this never-ending
loop. Any bird that is currently alive may be dead by
the time that you finish reading this sentence. It may
be hit by a car, killed by a predator (possibly after
being flushed by a bird watcher) or die of a heart

Covered with Oil? struck by an aircraft?

Banding may increase mortality slightly, but I think
there are probably far greater influences on survival
rate, such as habitat clearance.

No may about it Peter it does okay. I'm sorry Peter
but when you increase the weight ratio against power
then the effects are more then just a drop in
When the terrorists flew the planes into the WTC they
knew exactly what they where doing, more weight of
on board after a recent take off, greater damage done
when crashing, greater weight hits stationary object.
When the weight of a bird is increased even marginally
then guess what????

What the figures that David listed showed, that at
least some individuals can survive the stresses of

So you can put up with the "at least some individuals
can survive the stresses of capture". I can't and will
not stay silent on this issue, ever. How good are
David's figures? where did he obtain them from?

If all birds died quickly, banding would not be
permitted to happen (and the banders wouldn't want to

Your like I used to be Peter, no one on this planet
could be that cruel? as to cover the English channel
in oil? as to near wipe out the Kea eh? I am NOT naive
nor are you Peter, so please DO NOT ask me to believe
that banders are humane and therefore birders. Birders
are decent law abidding people that love birds and
travel miles to see them, I think you insult birdo's
or Birders but putting them in the same catagoary.

The issue of bleeding is a separate issue. I certainly
don't do it when I am banding (yes I am part of the
evil empire), and is usually the case when genetic
studies are being done (usually through Universities).

So are you saying you do partake in this activity? or
have done? I no longer believe anymore that we should
break up all the practices of wild bird study.
Therefore to me banding and bleeding have the same
possible end result.

This process would require a separate Ethics Authority
(at least in NSW) and would have to be done under
strict supervision.

Are you totally sure Peter?

I guess the penguins case would be done by vets to
assess health effects (I am really guessing here).

We could? would hope so eh? but vets qualified in what

I have seen the records of "animal carer" groups
rehabilitating and releasing Foxes and Indian Mynas so
I would want to carefully filter the credentials of
the arguer on a chat group (just as I do with

Releasing a fox in the UK gives you a problem? as does
releasing Myna's in India?

To say that we know everything already so we should
stop banding is ridiculous.

Why???? are you saying humanity is that stupid it
cannot learn by other means and ways?

We still know so little about so many things (not just
birds) that the more research of any kind has to be of
some use.

NOT NECESSARILY .... why assume the unanswered

Otherwise we may as well give up now, and just plod on
with our ignorant, destructive lives. I guess what I
am trying to say here is that banders are also
birders. They care for there animals (I know I am
distraught when birds die)

When birds die because of your own banding Peter?

but many important things can be worked out from

How many years now has banding been going on? in
since banding was commenced worldwide for the very
first time?

I also know that there are people are opposed to it,
and that emotion can sometimes be a very strong

A sincere debate MUST take place or who is it that
then creates the need for fringe radical groups?

Enough waffle on this endless argument - I'll be back
next week with some twitching questions.


P.S. I am happy to waste my money in any way that I
want to.

I prefer to conserve then waste.

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